A Discussion About Class Action Lawsuits

What follows is part of a transcript at Prok’s discussion group on Friday:
——————–

[18:13] Shaun Altman: what bugs me most is the opportunity cost from all this downtime
[18:13] Shaun Altman: when the grid is down, how can we do business?
[18:13] You: I suppose that’s a risk that you take when entering into an SL buisness
[18:14] Shaun Altman: Jesse: well that’s nonsense
[18:14] Shaun Altman: the 2d web doesn’t go down for half a day every Wed.
[18:14] Shaun Altman: If they’re going to tout it as a platform, they should make it one
[18:14] You: well, good buisness planning dictates that you find out the risks and weigh them against the benifits
[18:14] Shaun Altman: but I guess this is slightly tangent to the actual topic
[18:14] Prokofy Neva: Oh, I don’t think we should assume we have to endlessly take abuse and poor service and say, “suck it up” “that’s busienss”
[18:14] Shaun Altman: right I don’t either Prok
[18:14] You: neither do I
[18:15] Prokofy Neva: some of us have been doing an AWFUL lot of vacuuming up of these messes and losing an awful lot
[18:15] Aden Christensen is Online
[18:15] You: but it’s not like you’re not expecting it
[18:15] Wagahai Oddfellow: they have 2 areas in the TOS which are their loopholes that SL will have outages etc – although noticed they don’t have any SLA to say what they DO provide
[18:15] Prokofy Neva: well you do have a right to expect some reasonable amount of up time
[18:15] Prokofy Neva: and protection against crime
[18:15] You: well, what’s a “crime” in a virtual world?
[18:15] Christian Edo is Online
[18:16] You: harassment, yes, but what else solidly permiates into a virtual world?
[18:16] Ludo Merit: Lindens are money.
[18:16] You: no, they’re not
[18:16] You: they’re monopoly money
[18:16] Ebonfire Harbinger: Inteleltucal Property rights. And Privacy rights are at the top of the list
[18:17] Holly Rosewood: nonsense. you can exchange them for US$
[18:17] You: privacy really isn’t a right
[18:17] Prokofy Neva: There’s another chair Ludo
[18:17] Macphisto Angelus: not to mention tier and fees for premium accounts that these attacks stole from us. We pay for time.. these guys stole that time.
[18:17] Prokofy Neva: well yes and no Jesse
[18:17] Prokofy Neva: says who?
[18:17] Ludo Merit: Do you mind if I stand up?
[18:17] Raster Teazle: the point is not that Lindens are real or not. It’s the fact that they have value
[18:17] Prokofy Neva: there are lots of RL laws that carry over; and new laws yet to be written
[18:17] Ebonfire Harbinger: It is a right abut that is not a point of discussion here.
[18:17] You: yes, they have value
[18:17] Raster Teazle: they can ber traded for real money
[18:17] You: but nothing real
[18:17] You: LL could take all your money away at any time
[18:18] Ludo Merit: Which is why I exchange fast.
[18:18] You: heh
[18:18] Raster Teazle: LL thinks that they have value too, it shows by them trading on the lindeX
[18:18] Raster Teazle: they will never adminit
[18:18] Macphisto Angelus: very true
[18:18] You: I’ve putl$1000 into SL and taken none out
[18:18] Raster Teazle: admit it
[18:19] Ludo Merit: Are we talking about class action suits against griefers?
[18:19] Prokofy Neva: Yes I am certainly
[18:19] Prokofy Neva: what I had was a more short-term goal
[18:19] You: I don’t doubt that LL thinks they have value, they do, but their bases are covered on the subject of money
[18:19] Shaun Altman: Jesse: do you feel that gives you any sort of bias in this conversation?
[18:19] Prokofy Neva: I’m merely like to be able to add testimony to an existing investigation
[18:19] You: Shaun: No more than any other “buisness owner”
[18:19] Prokofy Neva: the class-action damages part isn’t really so viable
[18:19] Christian Edo is Offline
[18:19] Prokofy Neva: but it should be investigated too
[18:19] Polaris Grayson is Online
[18:19] Shaun Altman: Interesting
[18:19] You: it actually counterbalances most of the people here
[18:20] Raster Teazle: ?
[18:20] Prokofy Neva: well I don’t know what you mean by “counterbalances” and why you can be so sure
[18:20] Prokofy Neva: as the cases remain untested
[18:20] Prokofy Neva: merely having TOS that says money has no intrinsic value may not hold up as the vast protection you imagine
[18:20] Christian Edo is Online
[18:20] Prokofy Neva: when you have class action suits, that can have a way of eroding for a company
[18:20] You: well, I’m not sure, but my sense tell me that most people here make some money from SL
[18:20] Prokofy Neva: even the presence of thousands of people feeling injured can make companies change their behaviour
[18:20] Raster Teazle: the TOS is to protect them only in reguard to the L$
[18:21] Prokofy Neva: even if their corporate attorneys say there is no “case”
[18:21] You: the question is: are you vested with LL? Do you have a stake in SL? How much would a lawsuit hurt SL?
[18:22] Prokofy Neva: I’m always amazed at the confidence with which people take up either side of this debate, when there are no cases yet — and when there are, then you may be vincicated or not, but until then you cannot claim that assurance.
[18:22] Bethany Heart is Online
[18:22] Prokofy Neva: Yes I’m vested with LL.
[18:22] Wagahai Oddfellow: does anyone know if LL has claimed damages from the attacks? ..if so what the value has been?
[18:22] You: I feel that as a Resident, I have a duty to the world in which I live
[18:22] Prokofy Neva: Yes I have a stake in SL which is like having a stake in LL and a vest in LL.
[18:22] Prokofy Neva: So don’to go there.
[18:22] Frank Bligh is Online
[18:22] Raster Teazle: it is hurting their business
[18:22] Raster Teazle: and ours
[18:23] You: Prokofy: I wasn’t trying to imply that you don’t.
[18:23] Wagahai Oddfellow: i’d be interested to see a $ amount of what LL has lost due to attacks – without a loss it’s harder to get law enforcement involvement and definately harder to prosecute for damages
[18:23] You: you can, butit’s not easy
[18:23] Raster Teazle: it it was Bof A that was griefed I’m sure that would be handled quickly
[18:23] Koz Farina is Offline
[18:24] Raster Teazle: or any other business for that mater
[18:24] You: well, but “greif” really doesn’t have any parallels IRL
[18:24] Raster Teazle: yes it does
[18:24] Shaun Altman: greif is harassment
[18:24] Raster Teazle: harrasment
[18:24] Raster Teazle: is one
[18:24] Ebonfire Harbinger: If this is a discussoon of buisness then the augument leands no where fast. The Griefer is trying to make life unpleasent for everyone and is thus denighing those affected a chance to enjoy service in SL. Buisness by sdefinition on SL has to accept
[18:24] You: I was about to say harassment
[18:25] You: but a society generally removes a harassing member quickly.
[18:25] Frank Bligh is Offline
[18:25] Raster Teazle: I wish that were so in SL’s case
[18:25] Ebonfire Harbinger: outages as happening. But a person that is contantly harrasssed is being denighed service in a way not excpressed in teh agreed on terms of service. This is a bassis for a griefer being held liable for harming the grid and those tha use it
[18:25] Prokofy Neva: The Lindens are bringing in the FBI not only due to any loss they or anyone has suffered.
[18:25] Shaun Altman: another question about suits against griefers (rather than LL):
[18:26] Prokofy Neva: They are bringing them in because DOS attacks are crimes anyway.
[18:26] SNOOPYbrown Zamboni is Offline
[18:26] Shaun Altman: even if u did have a case, can u get blood from a rock?
[18:26] Prokofy Neva: You don’t have to demonstrate a loss and try it as merely a civil case administratively.
[18:26] Wagahai Oddfellow: DOS attacks don’t get the FBI’s attention without $ involved
[18:26] Shaun Altman: what are these idiots going to have that’s worth taking?
[18:26] Cosmos Glass is Online
[18:26] Prokofy Neva: Their future in the computer industry?
[18:26] You: heh
[18:27] Ebonfire Harbinger: That is the second and importnat thing. You could take a griefer’s computer but beyond that they (I would think) Do not have much to loose.
[18:27] You: it’s hard to prove who’s the man behind the mask.
[18:27] Raster Teazle: when the IRAA went after the DVD hacker they were not interested in how much money he had if any
[18:27] Raster Teazle: it was the point
[18:27] You: DVD Jon is a hero.
[18:27] Raster Teazle: I agree…:)
[18:27] You: and, it was completly legal
[18:27] errcheck Hicks: There is branding and anti-branding, they will always fight, and sabotage, if they can.
[18:27] Raster Teazle: still the money is not important
[18:28] Raster Teazle: how much they have
[18:28] Raster Teazle: it the point of it
[18:28] Prokofy Neva: I’d love to know whether the FBI finds this really serious or not.
[18:28] You: “We’re gonna teach those greifers a lession”?
[18:28] Absinthe Seurat: am i late?
[18:28] Prokofy Neva: I was talking to a guy who brings suits against hackers on hate sites and such
[18:28] Raster Teazle: drag one through court and the others will learn
[18:28] You: not really.
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: he was trying to make the case that online hacking/crime/hate etc often tracks with meatworld crime too
[18:29] Wagahai Oddfellow: my experience with the FBI is until there’s some massive losses (last time I was involved it was $5k in DDOS related issues), they didn’t really have time to even talk to us
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: yes well we have no idea whether the Lindens are talking through their hats
[18:29] You: Prok: agreed, but greifing in SL is so casual that the crime connection may not hold
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: could they show $5000 in losses?
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: I wonder about that.
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: THere are more people logged on than ever.
[18:29] Raster Teazle: added together there is a huge amount of loss
[18:29] Ebonfire Harbinger: The only important thing is to make it clear that they are mainting order in the cyberspace. After all if they publish his name then he becomes famous and people will like him even if he is doing illegal things.
[18:29] errcheck Hicks: Is there any evidence the attacks are coming from outside the country
[18:29] You: not that we can see
[18:30] Wagahai Oddfellow: Prokofy: without refunds being given, etc I doubt they could claim that much except for some employee overtime
[18:30] You: however, LL’s verification methods are a joke.
[18:30] errcheck Hicks: does anything prevent it?
[18:30] Absinthe Seurat: i think
[18:30] Absinthe Seurat: it’ds reactive here
[18:30] Absinthe Seurat: not proactive
[18:30] You: IP address: changeable, MAC address and ID0 (machiene hash): spoofable
[18:30] Ebonfire Harbinger: The point for the FBI is likely just to make it clear that tehy are investigating and will “Catch the evil dower” They likely have littel concern to publish results..but catchin him looks good on evaluation numbers. So they may catch him/her if they ca
[18:31] You: you misunderestimate the FBI
[18:31] Absinthe Seurat: i don’t think so
[18:31] errcheck Hicks: Self healing and virus identification are probably a better focus than because civil and criminal law gets a lot more complicated internationally
[18:31] Ebonfire Harbinger: You maybe do.
[18:31] Absinthe Seurat: i think 10 years from now yes
[18:31] Raster Teazle: we have heard from LL about working with the FBI in the past and nothing has come of it
[18:32] Raster Teazle: maybe this time they are serious
[18:32] Absinthe Seurat: but right now
[18:32] Absinthe Seurat: no
[18:32] Ludo Merit: That we know of.
[18:32] Absinthe Seurat: the fbi
[18:32] Absinthe Seurat: thinks all online people are nuts
[18:32] Prokofy Neva: well perhaps, but the FBI does have cases against online criminals
[18:33] Prokofy Neva: especially if they tie them to offline crimes
[18:33] Wagahai Oddfellow has had 50gigabit/sec ddos thrown at him, FBI could care less
[18:33] Prokofy Neva: I don’t think anything would change if they stopped the unverified accounts myself
[18:33] You: neither do I
[18:33] Cocoanut Koala: i do
[18:33] Macphisto Angelus: as do I
[18:33] Prokofy Neva: I think the FBI isn’t really the entity to combat this
[18:33] Ebonfire Harbinger: the last one proves that for sure.
[18:33] Prokofy Neva: some new kind of agency will have to emerge
[18:33] You: I was half-verified (cell phone) when I started
[18:34] Macphisto Angelus: anything is better then the no verification needed process.
[18:34] Prokofy Neva: well all the griefers join your group Jesse
[18:34] You: well, the V5 bans didn’t do any good
[18:34] Prokofy Neva: oh I disagree
[18:34] You: That’s why I put up the tag
[18:34] Prokofy Neva: they did a lot of good
[18:34] Prokofy Neva: it’s not something you solve in a day, and they’ve made a good start
[18:35] You: You do realise that things like libsl look more tempting if you give them a forbidden fruit appeal.
[18:35] Prokofy Neva: Um, I guess Ravenglass Rentals is tempting forbidden fruit too then.
[18:35] Prokofy Neva: THey join Ravenglass Rentals, an open group, and grief up the shared objects
[18:35] Prokofy Neva: I have them joining all the time
[18:35] Prokofy Neva: like your friend Borkrn Partch
[18:36] You: I don’t know him
[18:36] Prokofy Neva: so just what sort of brilliant programming reverse engineering work is HE doing for you all?
[18:36] You: heck I don’t know the majority of people in LibSL
[18:36] Prokofy Neva: That’s got to be of concern for a reverse engineering group I should think.
[18:36] Prokofy Neva: but that’s just me.
[18:36] You: you can’t say “oh hey someone that did something bad is also in libsl, ergo libsl is all bad”
[18:36] Prokofy Neva: I’d like to know my reverse engineers, if I were running a thing that you were supposedly not supposed to be reverse engineering under the TOS.
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: Yes it is all bad Jesse.
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: For that reason.
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: That attitude.
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: That says “no one can ever criticize us because if they do, they will be guilty of McCarthyism”
[18:37] Cocoanut Koala: i agree
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: Hubris squared.
[18:37] You: our, “hey, don’t judge us attitude”?
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: I do judge because its members have caused me and my tenants harm and grief.
[18:37] You: no, I don’t agree with your McCarthyist allusion
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: So yeah, I judge.
[18:37] Prokofy Neva: well that’s the argument pepole use
[18:37] Shaun Altman: well libsl has an exemption from the tos
[18:37] Shaun Altman: i believe
[18:38] Prokofy Neva: we don’t dare every say, hey, that group has just way too many banned griefers, what’sup?
[18:38] You: I welcome criticism, but not attacks
[18:38] Cocoanut Koala: which is itself outrageous
[18:38] Prokofy Neva: because then we’d be guilty of GASP guilt by association GASP
[18:38] You: we don’t have an “exemption”, we have an authorization for a CERTAIN SECTION of the ToS
[18:38] Prokofy Neva: well I feel an attack is in order when people have grief-balled my land up and made my tenants move out and ruined my buildings
[18:38] Prokofy Neva: sorry, but hey, that’s how it is
[18:38] Prokofy Neva: well I’d call that an exemption frankly
[18:38] Prokofy Neva: it’s a separate topic really
[18:38] You: well, you say exemption like its from the whole TOS
[18:39] Cocoanut Koala: an authorization?
[18:39] Prokofy Neva: I’d like to try to focus on the concept of whether there is value and whether anyone could get up a case
[18:39] You: but, yes, it is
[18:39] Cocoanut Koala: I want an authorization too, then
[18:39] Prokofy Neva: and frankly, if I were a judge, and saw that reverse engineering was not only allowed, but encouraged
[18:39] Prokofy Neva: and that griefers could join this group and be celebrated by Lindens
[18:39] Prokofy Neva: I’d say “close up the holes in your sieve, then we’ll talk”
[18:39] You: Cocoanut: then ask LL for permission to start a reverse engineeing project, it’s that simple
[18:39] Ebonfire Harbinger: No one welcomes attacks but banning places often tdo not allow for critisim. Many times people are banned for simple misunderstanding. And no communicaiotn is ever allowed again. Maybe not a cause of griefing but a reaon people leave SL.
[18:39] Cocoanut Koala: no
[18:39] Cocoanut Koala: the simple fact of the matter is groups shouldn’t be exempt from the rules
[18:39] Cocoanut Koala: particularly not groups withgriefers in them
[18:40] You: the TOS is not rigid
[18:40] Cocoanut Koala: indeed it is not
[18:40] You: thelaw is not rigid, it’s living
[18:40] Cocoanut Koala: it entirely depends on who you are
[18:40] Ebonfire Harbinger: TOS is not the Law. Just a terms of Service.
[18:40] Prokofy Neva: yeah and that’s why you cannot be so definitive about these suits having effect or not
[18:40] Prokofy Neva: the law is living and is developing
[18:40] Cocoanut Koala: the “terms” depend entirely on who you are
[18:41] You: LL used their rights to give libsl more rights, and I doubt they’d disagree if you asked them.
[18:41] Prokofy Neva: I do not understand why a group like yours with the sensitive technical brief involved is left on open enrollment
[18:41] Prokofy Neva: all my gruops are open as a convenience to renting, but renting a house isn’t reverse engineering software
[18:41] Cocoanut Koala: disagree with what?
[18:41] You: we don’t talk about exploits in world
[18:41] Prokofy Neva: I talked to the founder of this group
[18:41] You: certainly not untill they’ve been reported and patched
[18:41] Prokofy Neva: and he claimed that anyone just joining doesn’t get access to these secrets lol
[18:41] Prokofy Neva: but then why are they getting the cachet of joining it and claiming LL support?
[18:42] Prokofy Neva: that’s the worst of it really, their ability to claim they are endorsed
[18:42] You: we learned a bit after the godmode thing
[18:42] Prokofy Neva: and then to thumb their noses and grief with abandon
[18:42] Cocoanut Koala: what did you learn?
[18:42] Prokofy Neva: libsecondlife friends left cut-off bloody furry heads all over this club here
[18:42] You: Prok: the group is endorsed, not the people
[18:42] Hunter Glass thumbs his nose
[18:42] You: again, guilt by association
[18:42] Cocoanut Koala: you know, that logic doesn’t hold
[18:43] Cocoanut Koala: you are choosing to associate, by having the group
[18:43] Prokofy Neva: Guilt by association is not an argumentation you can use to exempt a group from poor, lax practices that endorse griefers and give them a sense of impunity.
[18:43] Prokofy Neva: Sorry, but that doesn’t fly at ll
[18:43] You: I am, but I also know that if I maintain my personal reputation, that my group associations can help me
[18:43] Prokofy Neva: I’m happy to associate the guilt of known griefers with people who keep defiantly letting them gain that endorsement
[18:43] Prokofy Neva: because you don’t care about people’s property damage
[18:43] Prokofy Neva: or their harm
[18:43] Cocoanut Koala: we have a group that is allowed to reverse engineer SL, and other groups are not.
[18:44] Prokofy Neva: becuase it’s all just a sandbox to you to play in
[18:44] Cocoanut Koala: you have bad members of that group.
[18:44] You: libsl can be taken two ways: 1) I’m a dirty greifer because I work on a project that I like or 2) I’m technical and I like what I do
[18:44] Prokofy Neva: BTW this meeting is ON THE RECORD
[18:44] Cocoanut Koala: that already is a bad equation
[18:44] You: we all have bad members in our groups
[18:44] Prokofy Neva: if you don’t wish to be on the record, then don’t talk.
[18:44] Shaun Altman: brb
[18:44] Ebonfire Harbinger: If the group is actively assisnt in griefing then they clearly should be held accountable. But just having a griefr as a mamber does not mean that the group is a griefer club. Those aer not opposing views.
[18:44] Cocoanut Koala: thanks, prok
[18:44] Prokofy Neva: Ebonfire, this group has had dozens of griefers
[18:44] Prokofy Neva: most of the 22 banned out of v-5 were in that group
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: there are griefer sin it now
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: so it’s fair to ask this group to define what the hell they are doing
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: they shrug and say it’s an open group, they can’t control it
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: oh?
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: why not?
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: they odn’t want guilt by association, by allow the association?
[18:45] Prokofy Neva: I expel griefers from my open group when I find them
[18:45] You: so, since V5 were bad and technical, then you label anything that they joined as tainted
[18:46] Prokofy Neva: Yes I do.
[18:46] Prokofy Neva: Because you can take action against them, and you didn’t.
[18:46] You: jhurliman and the other members don’t have time to say “oh, he’s a greifer, kick him out”
[18:46] Prokofy Neva: It’s because they cause real harm, and real suffering, and real damages.
[18:46] Prokofy Neva: well they can have invitation only?
[18:46] Cocoanut Koala: don’t have TIME to say?
[18:46] Prokofy Neva: what would be the compelling reason why this couldn’t be by invitation?
[18:46] Hunter Glass: who defines real?
[18:46] You: yeah, we’re working on a PROJECT outside of the world
[18:46] Shaun Altman: back
[18:47] You: I will run invitation only past jhurl, I would actually prefer it that way.
[18:47] You: when I joined it was closed enrollment
[18:47] Prokofy Neva: well I’ve never heard him or other leaders explain this properly frankly
[18:47] Sat Batra is Offline
[18:48] Ebonfire Harbinger: Then it would be fair for the persons in Lindons to disband the group and ask that you use other means to do that project corrodination. After all it would not make sence under those circumdsatnce that the group remain. when non other explain is given
[18:48] Shaun Altman: is anyone but me getting a spam to load SL Exchange?
[18:48] Prokofy Neva: who’s banging on me with the load webpage?
[18:48] Prokofy Neva: I’m getting it too
[18:48] You: neither have I. I only recently found out that it was open and I was an officer
[18:48] Esmee Isbell: im getting it
[18:48] Dimitrio Lewis: yea
[18:48] Wagahai Oddfellow: aubreTEC Gray is who they’re from
[18:48] Cocoanut Koala: yes
[18:48] Raster Teazle: yes, spam
[18:48] Dimitrio Lewis: I muted him, still getting it
[18:48] You: Linux = llLoadUrl disabled
[18:49] You: not I got it
[18:49] errcheck Hicks: I’m getting smapped 6 times
[18:49] Prokofy Neva: he’s on “busy” that avatar
[18:49] Shaun Altman: im getting hit over and over
[18:49] Prokofy Neva: does muting him stop it?
[18:49] Dimitrio Lewis: no
[18:49] You: Ebonfire: what right does LL have to close a group and stifel resident expression? every right, but we are constructive in general
[18:50] Wagahai Oddfellow gets another 2 and reports abuse
[18:50] Raster Teazle: What are some of the good things the group is doing?
[18:50] Prokofy Neva: good question Raster
[18:50] You: open source client, finding and fixing protocol exploits
[18:50] Prokofy Neva: they are working for cory Linden for free to find his exploits for him
[18:51] You: you didn’t notice, but LL hardened their protocol alot this release
[18:51] Ebonfire Harbinger: First stop withthe rights. That is not appriate here. This would be a context in which the group haas no valid in world expression. They can at their own disgression close the group according to the TOS.
[18:51] Prokofy Neva: no I guess we were so plump stupid that we couldn’t figure that out Jesse
[18:51] Ludo Merit: My husband is getting those blue windows on another continent.
[18:51] You: that’s what I said, but it’s not in their best intrest to do so
[18:51] Cocoanut Koala: the second life builders group are all getting them
[18:51] Prokofy Neva: Ebonfire, what did you mean by “stop with the rights”?
[18:51] Prokofy Neva: one of the problems is that the rights are not yet defined
[18:52] Prokofy Neva: and they will be defined in the next century surely
[18:52] You: Prok: well, it’s not a client visible change, and I appologise if I came off as condescending
[18:52] Cocoanut Koala: then what change is it?
[18:52] Prokofy Neva: so to dismiss the concept of them as non-existent is premature
[18:52] Prokofy Neva: it was described by Lindens
[18:53] Hunter Glass: You say itwas described by lindens as if what they say is law, but youstrike down their TOS
[18:53] Ebonfire Harbinger: Rights and abilities are figgerent things . Everything you , me or LL does is not a right . It is an ablity. When you yUse the word “Rights” it implies moral or leagal correctness as oppossed to an ablity which can be excersised.
[18:53] Shaun Altman: I gotta TP away from this SL Exchange spam lol
[18:53] Shaun Altman: thanks for the event it was interesting
[18:53] Wagahai Oddfellow: it’s grid-wide from the sound of it
[18:53] Prokofy Neva: Hunter, I’m merely talking about their blog.
[18:53] Prokofy Neva: They themselves describe what they do
[18:53] Wagahai Oddfellow: concierge and mentors both reporting this spam issue
[18:53] Prokofy Neva: and I don’t know what you mean by “striking down their TOS”?
[18:53] Prokofy Neva: yes everyone has it
[18:54] You: I’m only getting a few
[18:54] You: can we pinpoint an object, prok?
[18:54] Ludo Merit: I seem to have stopped it by putting the im window in my upper right corner.
[18:54] You: hehe
[18:55] Raster Teazle: lol
[18:55] Prokofy Neva: no that doesn’t work
[18:55] You: lol
[18:55] Raster Teazle: good sugestion
[18:55] You: Friday the 13th superstition
[18:55] Ludo Merit: Well, we’ll see if I get hit again.
[18:55] You: ok, so, where were we?
[18:56] Prokofy Neva: I suppose Live Help knows about it
[18:56] Prokofy Neva: no sense in baning on them
[18:56] You: one would think
[18:56] You: hmm, I need to write a Deny filter for analyst
[18:56] You: /deny LoadURL would be handy
[18:58] Raster Teazle: well, I got a lowered opinion now of aubreTEC
[18:58] You: yeah
[18:58] Hunter Glass: whatever black widow is, it doesnt sound good
[18:58] Prokofy Neva: I’m surprised they did that
[18:58] Macphisto Angelus: its a gun
[18:58] You: yeah, that’s a poor marketing move
[18:58] Prokofy Neva: and gosh Jesse, you are slamming an entire company on the basis of one individual’s bad actions, tsk tsk
[18:58] Ludo Merit: Very poor.
[18:58] Prokofy Neva: and that’s because you have expectations that such things won’t be done by one person in a group that is controlled
[18:59] Esmee Isbell: i doubt the owner of the object is responsible for the spam
[18:59] You: consider the possibility that it’s sabatauge
[18:59] Prokofy Neva: oh that’s possible
[18:59] You: and I can’t spell :{
[18:59] Ebonfire Harbinger: I have one and it is a nice weapon but I can’t see what this URL Spam is going to net anyone. Oh well see ya later.
[18:59] Prokofy Neva: the guy himself is on busy now hard to say
[18:59] Cocoanut Koala: it’s always sabotage
[18:59] Cocoanut Koala: SL has actually made sabotage BORING
[18:59] Macphisto Angelus: TC Ebonfire
[18:59] Cocoanut Koala: at least, the griefers have
[18:59] You: You would konw, coco
[18:59] Cocoanut Koala: and the guy is probably busy frantically explaining to the lindens that it isn’t him
[18:59] Cocoanut Koala: I would know?
[19:00] Panthar Orlowski is Offline
[19:00] You: totaly j/k
[19:00] Panthar Orlowski is Online
[19:00] Cocoanut Koala: well at least it’s differet from the self-replcating objects!
[19:00] You: just the way you said that sabotage was BORING made it look like you were a perpetrator
[19:00] Cocoanut Koala: oh
[19:01] You: I could see how libsl could make this spam 10x FASTER!
[19:01] Macphisto Angelus: just shows you close one dooor, they will find another
[19:01] Macphisto Angelus: *door
[19:01] Prokofy Neva: yeah but at least you close that door
[19:01] Ludo Merit: lol jesse
[19:01] Cocoanut Koala: it is not impossible to stop
[19:01] Torley Linden: Hi everyone, we’re aware of the annoying mass spam problems and are currently on it. We’ll update accordingly and are hunting down further occurrences. Spam sucks!
[19:01] Cocoanut Koala: no use getting nihilistic about it
[19:01] Macphisto Angelus: true
[19:01] Prokofy Neva: there’s no need to feel futile about it always
[19:01] Prokofy Neva: yes
[19:02] Cocoanut Koala: but – it sure does get old, if you’re trying to do something
[19:02] Prokofy Neva: the question is, which law firms would take this up? I haven’t seen a single cyber law firm appear yet
[19:02] You: nor have I
[19:02] Prokofy Neva: I personally wouldn’t spend the time on it but you’d think some would be interested
[19:02] Hunter Glass: does everyone who is getting the spam have an acount at SLX?
[19:02] Cocoanut Koala: i do
[19:03] Prokofy Neva: they wouldn’t come to SOP in droves if there wasn’t something to it
[19:03] Macphisto Angelus: iu do
[19:03] Ludo Merit: No. My husband is getting it.
[19:03] Cocoanut Koala: SOP?
[19:03] Hunter Glass: ok, rules that out
[19:03] You: I’m interested, but I doubt that an attourney would pidgeonhole themselves into cyberlaw
[19:03] nimrod Yaffle is Online
[19:03] You: it’s all about the benjamins
[19:03] Macphisto Angelus: yessir
[19:03] Prokofy Neva: Um, they do already pigeon hole themselves
[19:04] Cosmos Glass is Offline
[19:04] Prokofy Neva: I don’t know what “benjamins” are because I’m not cool
[19:04] You: I need a gangsta anim, it’d fit sao well with my avi.
[19:04] Prokofy Neva: unless yoyu mean Ben Franklin
[19:04] You: heh
[19:04] Prokofy Neva: but these people start their billing at $500/hour
[19:04] You: $100 bills, aka money
[19:04] Koz Farina is Online
[19:04] You: wasn’t that a movie a few years back?
[19:04] Macphisto Angelus: yep lol
[19:04] Hunter Glass: yes, you are now cooler now knowing
[19:04] You: coolness++
[19:05] Prokofy Neva: well I gtg soon
[19:05] Hunter Glass: You have been officially schooled on the Benjis
[19:05] Jesse Malthus runs to Avimator to make a gang signs anim
[19:05] Prokofy Neva: um, I figured it out as you can see from scrolling back
[19:06] Hunter Glass: lol
[19:06] Esmee Isbell: i dont’ think a suit would be successful without LL collaboration. for one, only they know who the rl target(s) might be for such a suit. and i think working outside of that collaboration would be detrimental for all — for reasons already detailed.
[19:06] Prokofy Neva: anyway, thanks for monopoolizing the discussing, W-hatter, we’ll meet again real soon to really talk about it : )
[19:06] Esmee Isbell: and with that…i’ll bid you all goodnight…
[19:06] You: I hate SA
[19:06] You: call me a /b/tard if you must
[19:06] Prokofy Neva: yes, I think only if LL found it in their intersts would it work
[19:06] Macphisto Angelus: NIght Esmee
[19:06] Esmee Isbell: *waves*
[19:06] Prokofy Neva: which is why I suggested to the Lindens they should let us also file information
[19:06] Prokofy Neva: to show damages
[19:06] Prokofy Neva: yes b/tard is the new v-5
[19:07] You: heh
[19:07] You: I don’t have enough group spots to join /b/tards
[19:07] Prokofy Neva: yes
[19:07] Raster Teazle: if they could give notice like “we are going to take this guy to court, any one want to claim damages?”
[19:07] Prokofy Neva: to ruin their FUTURE ability to have careers in computers/IT
[19:07] Prokofy Neva: that might be the only thing you could threaten them
[19:07] Prokofy Neva: eh, Jesse?
[19:07] Baba Yamamoto is Online
[19:07] You: but, is it worth it? knowing that you ruined someone’s future?
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: they ruin my present?
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: and my future?
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: and it’s not me ruining it
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: it’s the law
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: it’s not personal
[19:08] You: I did that once, forced a guy to quit by threatening to expose his theft of movie URLs
[19:08] You: and I felt GUILTY AS HELL
[19:08] You: but, he came back, and I appologized
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: well I’m off
[19:08] Prokofy Neva: thanks for coming everybody!
[19:08] Macphisto Angelus: TC Prokofy
[19:08] You: g’night Prok
[19:09] Cocoanut Koala: bye prok!
[19:09] Dimitrio Lewis: oh well, I’m off too
[19:09] Scope Cleaver: Later Dimi
[19:09] Macphisto Angelus: See ya Dimitrio